Curse

Acan Vishnu · Jul 14, 2005, 03:48 PM // 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmperorTippy

I have tested Nolani Academy, Divinity Coast and Gates of Kryta. The nerfing is inline with the posts on this forum. As for the economy what would be an acceptable test I would be glad to attempt it. I have tried out a few theriores even going so far as to attempt to solo Hells Precipice wth my best farming build (I killed the first 2 groups of Titians) I got nothing. I personaly never new that Hells Precipice was a farming spot so the changes apear to be global. (May well be a mistake in the update).

Ahh, but that is all I've ever seen anyone posting -- tests of the drops while solo'ing. I'm thinking theres a chance that thats part of whats going on, that ArenaNet's idea of going through the game normally is with other people working together. I played a little bit last night with my guild and noticed no changed in the drops, we were actually getting pretty darn good drops just farming for some collector items.

Aniewiel · Jul 14, 2005, 03:50 PM // 15:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acan Vishnu

Ahh, but that is all I've ever seen anyone posting -- tests of the drops while solo'ing. I'm thinking theres a chance that thats part of whats going on, that ArenaNet's idea of going through the game normally is with other people working together. I played a little bit last night with my guild and noticed no changed in the drops, we were actually getting pretty darn good drops just farming for some collector items.

EXCELLENT thinking! I wonder...since ANet encourages grouping, maybe they've written something in that scales drops UP according to the number of people/henchmen in the party?!

If that would even be a remote possibility, I WOULD LOVE IT! What a nice way to "reward" those who choose to quest/mission/farm with groups. Since the premise of bots is "solo" farming, this would certainly put the kabosh on them!

But, and back to the original topic: This is where a short statement from ANet would help a LOT!

Dax · Jul 14, 2005, 03:51 PM // 15:51

methinks the thread is going off target....

MSecorsky · Jul 14, 2005, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aniewiel

EXCELLENT thinking! I wonder...since ANet encourages grouping, maybe they've written something in that scales drops UP according to the number of people/henchmen in the party?!

If that would even be a remote possibility, I WOULD LOVE IT! What a nice way to "reward" those who choose to quest/mission/farm with groups. Since the premise of bots is "solo" farming, this would certainly put the kabosh on them!

It would certainly be brilliant.

Hmm... wonder if bots would start picking up henchies to go with?

Aniewiel · Jul 14, 2005, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Now...I guess I should have just put up a poll. :P\p

EmperorTippy · Jul 14, 2005, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Yes prolly polls are good.

Aniewiel · Jul 14, 2005, 03:57 PM // 15:57

*sends Emperor Tippy forth into Ascalon's denizens to test out the group drop theory*

Algren Cole · Jul 14, 2005, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Borealis

If I wanted a "pvp" experiece playing against real people I wouldn't be playing this game, I've got 4 RP chars. created and don't have the interest for pvp at the moment. I bought a RP game so I could play a RP game,

Heh....300k for fissure armor? What dream world are you living in? You're about a million or two off from the actual cost of it. If I'm correct in needing 105 ecto for a full set you're looking at over a million right there....

I have no interest in fissure armor...so yes my numbers are off...I was just pointing out that people shouldn't complain about things that don't affect them.

btw...I give away ecto whenever I have it. Next time I get some I'll send you a whisper.

TheGreatBoo · Jul 14, 2005, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aniewiel

With this latest update, many people claim utter joy and others decry the "nerfing" of farming areas. I can't imagine the consternation over at Arena Net. No matter -what- they do, how they do it, when they do it and, probably most importantly, why they do it, they are harrangued. It's the old "damned if you do, damned if you don't routine".

So what would help? Is it the WHY of things that is missing here? I think everyone can live with the what, how and when of ANet's updates. But it is the why that seems to be confusing/upsetting to everyone.

If Gaile, or some other ANet representative came on here and gave a "This is why we did it" statement, would it help? Or would it simply be another avenue to berate their update?

I do think it in ANet's best interests to put out some sort of statement with every update. Just a list of changes/patches/bug fixes/enhancements isn't enough, it seems.

I am genuinely curious as to what it is that they can do to help this situation...besides "unnerf" the farming areas?

Please leave reasonable suggestions and/or wish lists for what you'd like to HEAR from ANet.

This is the only post I have read here. You can't please everyone. I find that the updates are good, and am eager to see more from arena.net. They nerfed the griffons because it was becoming an easy target for farming. You can bicker and complain all you want, but deep down everyone realizes that it was too easy. I really find that theres no point in a.net explaining why they did what they did. We all know there was a problem that needed fixed. Now that this area is closed, I'd like to see which area is going to be the next place hit, and the next place fixed. What are you going to do when they have fixed all the areas, because eventually it will happen.

Creston · Jul 14, 2005, 04:17 PM // 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by silvertemplar

Reading that sentence , Anet is literally screaming "Stop your UltimaOnline/Everquest PvE antics , go PvP ".

Well, that's fair enough, but then I agree with the OP, they should say so. Simply come out and say, look, PvP takes precedence, PvE is there as fluff to get you levelled up / a bit familiar with your skills, but all the rewards are in PvP.

Quote:

Now i just wonder, if we look purely at PvP..does the "going downhill" still apply? I don't see any threads criticising PvP-core mechanics specifically [only criticism stems from either PvE related unlocking of stuff or are actually fixed/updated very fast ].

I think that the PvPers' major problem with the game was that they were FORCED to do PvE in order to be able to do any decent amount of varied PvP. That has been rectified. However, it seems that the changes to PvE that were done in an attempt to correct PvP issues (changes which are now, really, redundant) aren't being addressed anymore.

Quote:

Maybe "normally" = PvPing with limited PvEing to familiarise yourself with a build and the various skills. Really, i think someone should define what GWs definition of "normal" play is , something tells me PvP owns the LARGER part of "normal play" than PvE.

Well, the only one who can definitely say so is Anet. It does seem to me that you're right, but I doubt they'd ever come out and say it, since the PvEers are presumably a large portion of their intended expansion pack sales.

Quote:

I wouldnt be surprised if they meant through PvP. If we can't unlock all armor/weapons via PvP already then i'm sure that we eventually will be able to.

Then it'd be nice if they said so, so people who really only play PvE can then figure out it's not really going to get any better, so they might as well go somewhere else.

Creston

Thanas · Jul 14, 2005, 04:18 PM // 16:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

However people's mindsets are item based, therein lies the rub. My Ranger has ascended with basically a piece of guano bow and is still moving on. While I keep my eyes open for something better, the world isn't going to stop and the sun won't go nova if I can't find that uber-gold max damage Bow of Instant Death When You Show It To The Enemy.

I read an interview somewhere saying that the game is skill based and that the items were collectables that really make very little difference to gameplay. So weapons don't make much difference. If people are so obsessed over items then perhaps they should play another game or rethink their gaming attitude.

Nerfing is completely justified since farming supports the mass of people who wish to gather items or gold for trade purposes or just plain gold. This just propogates the 'items' mentality. Guild wars is a skill based game. (True I myself would like certain items but they aren't necessary)

To the main point though. The developers shouldn't have to justify why they nerf areas, since nerfing allows the game maintain its core direction i.e one that is skill based. A lot of the other changes that have been made appear to be based on community appeals. I myself have made several appeals to ANet on certain issues and these appear to have been rectified though I'm not saying this is down to me solely

. So obviously ANet shouldn't have to explain themselves on these points, since a lot of the 'WHYs' can be found from scouring numerous GW forums.

In conclusion I feel that ANet is under no obligation to explain themselves. They are professionals and I expect that changes are implemented after debate and discussion.

Damon Windwalker · Jul 14, 2005, 04:23 PM // 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

I have no interest in fissure armor...so yes my numbers are off...I was just pointing out that people shouldn't complain about things that don't affect them.

1st off - it wasn't complaining, it was observation, and offering supporting reason to an assertion. Please learn the difference.

Second off, as you so astutely note the cost - that is obviously not something that one aquires in a day. Therefore, for someone who is planning in advance, it IS something that affects me. Additionally, basic mathematical principles will state that before you can get to a higher number, you have to move through the lower numbers.

Therefore, my observation (which was not presented in an angry, whining, or attacking way - but rather a calm, logical, and supported expression of personal opinion) is perfectly justified and valid, and not worthy of being flamed. Please attempt to apply simple logic before flaming. Thank you.

Borealis · Jul 14, 2005, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

I have no interest in fissure armor...so yes my numbers are off...I was just pointing out that people shouldn't complain about things that don't affect them.

btw...I give away ecto whenever I have it. Next time I get some I'll send you a whisper.

Well, I truly appreciate the offer for the freebies, but at the price that crap is going for I wouldn't feel right. Hit me up though, I'll be glad to compensate you for it, whether it might be weapons or gold or whatever.

NiGht_HaWk · Jul 14, 2005, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

It would certainly be brilliant.
Hmm... wonder if bots would start picking up henchies to go with?

That could be easily averted if it only rewarded partying with real players, not henchies.

Reiden Argrock · Jul 14, 2005, 04:41 PM // 16:41

I have not played since the update yesterday, so I'm not sure exactly how the changes effected the gameplay, but...

People bring grind on themselves. GW can only do so much to put an end to grind, and then it is up to the players to realize what is intentional grind and what their doing themselves, such as farming for rare items. I don't think that the point of rare items was so that players would go spend hours farming highly concentrated mob zones, until they were full of rare's. Especially since this game also was created to enforce skill over equipment. Their is only a few piece of equipment that make a big difference, is armor for warriors (which still doesn't matter much, cause other class's have armor penetration and skills that ignore armor factor) and energy adds to casters. Perhaps the +health or +energy items help, but I have not noticed it in pvp or pve.

By you people saying their is grind because you aren't a maxxed out char, with the ultimate items, because farming areas are being nerfed, that grind is a result of your own lack of understanding. You don't need those items to be a good player, if you spend hours farming rare's, thats your own fault, and you are ignoring the other, more important aspects of the game, that equipment has a much smaller impact on your outcome than skill and understanding of the game mechanics.

GW has no grind for first chars, and very little grind for alternate characters, because no character will be played the same way, in pvp or pve. Guild Wars is still the game that I played in beta, it's still the game I thought it was when I bought it in april, the only difference is that more and more players are forgetting what this game was about, and are trying to turn it into another game where time and equipment will produce the best players.

Just shutup for once and play the game for what it is.

Dax · Jul 14, 2005, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reiden Argrock

Just shutup for once and play the game for what it is.

here here!!

Grinding and farming is what you make of it. If you benefitted from it previously and not anymore, that's more than alot of people have will be able to do now.

If the game is truly about skill (I keep hearing that repeatedly) you'll just need to compensate.

It's only grinding if you consider it that way.. for some people it's fun

Tuna · Jul 14, 2005, 04:56 PM // 16:56

To get this back on track I think it would be nice to have a recap on what the actual goal of Guild Wars is. Through all these nerfs I think we (including Arena Net) have lost sight of the 'vision' of Guild Wars is. The only thing that is really clear is that they don't want us to farm. However, I think they way they went about thier anti-farm quest probably wasn't the best. It doesn't seem to me that they are looking to the root of the problems but rather putting a bandaid on the little cut and forgetting about the gaping whole underneath. This type of practice only causes infections and more problems, as we see today.

My theory is that there is some stupid buisnessman at Arena Net that wants to hit broad demographics and increase the longlevity of the game but is forgetting that actions like that are more likely to ruin the game than help it. If people want to farm all day but farming gets hit with the nerf stick, all the farmers aren't suddenly going to go PvP, they're going to find another game.

funbun · Jul 14, 2005, 04:58 PM // 16:58

I agree with Tuna. Here the problem:

I played through the game a a monk. Uber monk stuff is rare. When I went to fight by mirror I wanted a Uber weapon. What did I do. I farmed for other weapons (Necro, Warrior, I got lots of ranger stuff). I sold those weapons to make enough money to buy an Uber Rare Monk Rod.

Now I can't even farm for other stuff unless I devote my life to GW.

I'm just gonna make a W/Mo and start running people to Drankor's Forge. But GW will probably close off the run before long and utterly destory the run market. Every market that people use to make money GW nerfs it and imposes some stupid commy thing on top of it.

Here's another problem:

Anet has no accountability. Because the game has no monthly fee they can impose whatever commy crap they want. They already got our money and there is nothing we can do about it. If there were a monthly fee we could boycott and hurt then financially and force them to denerf the game.

Dax · Jul 14, 2005, 05:02 PM // 17:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuna

My theory is that there is some stupid buisnessman at Arena Net that wants to hit broad demographics and increase the longlevity of the game but is forgetting that actions like that are more likely to ruin the game than help it. If people want to farm all day but farming gets hit with the nerf stick, all the farmers aren't suddenly going to go PvP, they're going to find another game.

This is true, many decisions are not made by the developers but sometimes by people who don't really even play the game. Having said that, it would be a mistake (in my opinion) to have players who scream the loudest dictate how the game should be run. That would be shortsighted at best

funbun · Jul 14, 2005, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dax

This is true, many decisions are not made by the developers but sometimes by people who don't really even play the game. Having said that, it would be a mistake (in my opinion) to have players who scream the loudest dictate how the game should be run. That would be shortsighted at best

It seems to me the players have the best solutions at this point. Anet is screwing themselves up the butt with thorns.